Nunome Zogan

Nunome Zogan

Postby Fred Zweig » Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:53 pm

I am interested in discussing and the technique of Nunome Zogan. I have been exploring the process and am learning though failures and successes. I would like to know if others share my passion for this process.
Fred
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Re: Nunome Zogan

Postby Sage » Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:08 pm

I'm very drawn to it Fred, but haven't attempted any yet. I'm trying to get a handle on pierce work and basic carving before taking on a new technique.

Would you be willing to share some of the trials you've done? I'd be very interested in seeing your applications of such a versatile technique, and hearing about what you've learned so far...
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Re: Nunome Zogan

Postby Fred Zweig » Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:17 pm

Sage, I would be glad to share some images of my blunders and successes. I will also share images of the tools I have contrived for this. Hopefully Ford ant the others will set me straight and offer me some advice. The students at my demos and workshops are thrilld and have produced so rather ambitious samples. I will share those as well.

I am not encouraged to take the step and do some carving as well.

Thanks for your interest,
Fred
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Re: Nunome Zogan

Postby Sage » Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:28 pm

:clap: :clap: Thanks! I look forward to your posts :)

Fred Zweig wrote:I am not encouraged to take the step and do some carving as well.


Not encouraged? Is that a typo? I hope you meant "now" :)

I've been working on a post for sharing what I've been learning about carving but a fractured finger has slowed me down some. I hope to have it up in another couple of weeks.
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Re: Nunome Zogan

Postby Marcus » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:05 pm

Fred,
This is something that I am keen to give a go at, and would be more than pleased to see some of your attempts/ insights/tools! :cheerleader:
Cheers,
Marcus :biggrin:
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Re: Nunome Zogan

Postby Fred Zweig » Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:59 am

It was a typo. Now instead of Not. Carving will require many hours to do decently. Let us see if I can post images of my experiments and those of my students.
Fred
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Re: Nunome Zogan

Postby Fred Zweig » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:16 am



I no longer understand how to post an image or album.
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Re: Nunome Zogan

Postby Marcus » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:30 am

Thanks Fred for posting the slide show! :clap: :clap: I hope to try this soon.
Are you using a copper tool to set the foil into the ground? or some other material?
Thanks again!
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Re: Nunome Zogan

Postby Sage » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:17 pm

Thanks Fred! What are some key points you've learned in your testing?

Hard to tell from photos but it looks to me like some of those have deeper hatching than may be required.

I know Ford has talked about two different methods one of which uses a finer, more acute punch for cutting and one which is a bit coarser.

Have you seen this photo essay?

https://picasaweb.google.com/1029203212 ... baProject#
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Re: Nunome Zogan

Postby D.Sweet » Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:33 am

I too have been wanting to do some study/practice work using this technique but like Sage I have been spending my time in the workshop doing carving practice. Well that and failing over and over again on the patina for the next tsuba project. A discussion on the technique might just be the kick in the pants I need to purchase some foil and start making the necessary tools.

The pieces in your slide show look very promising. I wonder, how are you going about cutting your patterns in the foil? I see signs of some specially made punches, but I would be interested in hearing any other methods you might have used.
-Donovan
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Re: Nunome Zogan

Postby Fred Zweig » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:02 pm

I had no idea that the slide show would be successful and am thrilled to see that it worked.

"Are you using a copper tool to set the foil into the ground? or some other material?"

I am using a copper punch to adhere the thicker foil. One of my students was able to adhere here very thin foil with a bamboo punch.

"I know Ford has talked about two different methods one of which uses a finer, more acute punch for cutting and one which is a bit coarser."

I have seen the essay and examined it very closely. I have modified the chisels to be narrower and shaped to a very acute angle. There are so many questions and so many possible variations. I agree that the depth of the bite seems a bit too aggressive. The use of thinner foil allowed for finer tooth on the mild steel.

"I wonder, how are you going about cutting your patterns in the foil"

I am using commercial punches available at a local craft shop. I have yet to make my own.

My thanks to all who have responded to this and appreciate the comments and hope this will be a learning and sharing forum. I will continue to post images if I can recall how I did the previous slide show.
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Re: Nunome Zogan

Postby Dick Bonham » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:38 pm

Thanks for posting the slide show Fred. A very interesting technique. So many neat things to try.
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Re: Nunome Zogan

Postby Patrick Hastings » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:19 pm

I think the name Nunome literally means cloth. The courser type of Nunome where the texture shows through the foil is probably the namesake of the technique as it makes the foil look like a woven cloth.
Ford gave a brief run down on this technique showed me the tools and I made notes. It works. The copper and the bamboo tools were used together in stages. First the copper followed by the bamboo. The copper tool has to have a texture on it so it aids in keeping the foil from spreading. It is the same principle we see applied to many of the other Zogan tagane and the Dashi tagane. The texture helps press the metal in one direction. Since its copper it has to be retextured often, by tapping with the edge of a file. The bamboo (chopstick end) is used after because it conforms better and allows the lower zones of the foil to get pressed in deeper giving you a better set.
I find its all in the hatching process though. If your hatching is spot on everything else is much less sensitive. Even seeing it in person you might now really get it. I suspect that is why Ford did not waste time to demonstrate it, but rather just explained it in detail. Practice and practice with subtle variations in how you cut the lines is what is required to really get this technique.
The hardest part for me is the subtlety of design how to take advantage of it. However it was often used to make simple gold borders on iron fittings and I find that to be one of the more enticing uses of it personally. I have used it on a few pieces to add gold accents on iron and it works really well.
I would not consider myself qualified to teach this technique So When Ford comes back I would rather he fills in the detail if that suits him.
Patrick :)
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Re: Nunome Zogan

Postby Fred Zweig » Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:38 am

Patrick, I appreciate your insight and I must agree with you that it takes more than just an explination of the technique to understand how best to do it and use it. It is one of the reasons that I am posting this so that it will encourage me to continue my search to perfect the process. I am also interested in seeing how I can use it to create more contemporary designs. I will continue doing my exploration to better understand and perhaps explain my observations more clearly. I am still amazed how thin the wire must be to be able to be able to create a thin line in the design. It is important not to use to heavy a texture since the resulting chisel marks will tend to cut the wire before it is properly imbedded into the texture. The pieces in my collection provide me with inspirational challenges to understand how they were created. I do hope that Ford will be able to give us some clues that may make it easier. I will persist in my exploration.
Fred
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http://fredz49.blogspot.com/
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Re: Nunome Zogan

Postby Patrick Hastings » Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:32 am

I did some study on the spread of the wire. the smallest wire I can personally manufacture with a direct draw is .1mm about .004" (four thousands of an inch diameter) I found that I could easily get a 500 percent increase in width on that wire when setting it. So it becomes and effective line width of .5mm which is a pretty drastic increase and the flattened wire is nearing gold leaf in thickness at that point. I think part of the trick here is to be able to get a good set without over beating the wire. Again its back to how well you shaped those teeth. Unless you are looking for texture to show through the wire you have to keep the size of your cuts to a minimum. They can be incredibly shallow and still bite like crazy if you get it just right.
Personally I also believe the oil from your skin can only work against you. I keep the textured areas clean and do not touch them until all the overlays are set.
Patrick :)
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