The essential tools for Japanese inlay and carving

for the discussion of materials and tools, supplies and where to get or exchange them

Re: The essential tools for Japanese inlay and carving

Postby Daniel X » Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:00 am

I did :), I bought about 12 feet of O1 and W1 each. I also went by a local recycler and talked to them and I can get alot of stuff there. They were smoking Cigars from a place I wont detail :) so I know I can probably bribe them with some good cigars to let me know when they get interesting chunks of steel in as well. I am a little jelous though, I can only get the red dot ones here.
I could order the blanks from Japan, but truthfully I want to make my own, at least this time around. Some how feels right.
Thank you for the heads up on the drill bits, I will make sure to be careful with them.
I am also curious, In the topic about where you work, I see you have what looks like an 8 to 10 inch steel round, are you using that for an anvil?
Daniel X

"He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world was mad." Christine Sabatini (A Epitaph to Rafael)
Daniel X
Registered User
Registered User
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:22 am
Location: Beautiful Colorado, USA
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: The essential tools for Japanese inlay and carving

Postby Patrick Hastings » Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:29 am

It's actually metal that I have collected for making pitch bowls/blocks... , but I am going to use it as an anvil for now. I still need to surface it. I sold my other anvils so this is a temporary thing, but it works just fine for fittings work. The post that its on makes it work well. Its an 8"x8"x37" post made of 3/4" 7 ply sheets laminated together. It makes a great foundation for the block.
Patrick :)
User avatar
Patrick Hastings
Registered User
Registered User
 
Posts: 1508
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:30 am
Location: Cudahy, Wisconsin USA
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 17 times

Re: The essential tools for Japanese inlay and carving

Postby Ford » Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:51 am

Hi Jamie

your friend should have no problems dealing with the staff at Komokin. It's a small operation and they're always really helpful. As is usual in Japan cash payments are usual, I'm not even sure they can take cards.

If she has a print out images of the items it may speed things along and ensure you get the right stuff. It can sometimes be a bit of a mission to get everything you're after from one store so as a back up the next easiest place to try is Tokyu Hands in Shibuya, Tokyo. Leave the Shibuya station on the Yamanote line by the Hachiko exit (the little bronze dog) and just ask any young person for directions. This is a "lifestyle" store, part of a chain, and carries crafts supplies. Metalwork and jewellery is on the 7th floor and one of the older gentlemen working there is an avid amateur kinko worker so they tend to keep stock of chisel blanks and hammers etc.

That's a thought, you should tell Akane San that the tools (dogu) and materials you're wanting are for Kinko work. Kinko means metal/gold work in Japanese. The other, more specific, term would be Chokin. This means carving.

regards,

fh
"The artist yields often to the stimuli of materials that will transmit his spirit." Odilon Redon
my website
User avatar
Ford
Administrator
Administrator
 
Posts: 4868
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:30 am
Location: Torquay, 'The English Riviera', Devon, England.
Has thanked: 214 times
Been thanked: 210 times

Re: The essential tools for Japanese inlay and carving

Postby Jamie F » Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:21 am

Ford wrote:That's a thought, you should tell Akane San that the tools (dogu) and materials you're wanting are for Kinko work. Kinko means metal/gold work in Japanese.


Brilliant! Thanks for that Ford. I'm not sure if Akane San quite realises yet what she's offering to do though :sneaky2:
Just to confirm: you have to front up to both Komokin and Tokyo Hands to make a purchase; they don't do mail-order or similar [even within Japan]? Home is in Toyota, so I'll have to sus out whether she's heading to Tokyo at some stage [500km away].

Cheers!

Jamie
"Knowledge comes by taking things apart: analysis. But wisdom comes by putting things together.” John A. Morrison
User avatar
Jamie F
Registered User
Registered User
 
Posts: 87
Images: 1
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 6:27 am
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: The essential tools for Japanese inlay and carving

Postby Ford » Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:53 am

Komokin will send an order to her within Japan and Tokyu Hands does have branches throughout the country also.
"The artist yields often to the stimuli of materials that will transmit his spirit." Odilon Redon
my website
User avatar
Ford
Administrator
Administrator
 
Posts: 4868
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:30 am
Location: Torquay, 'The English Riviera', Devon, England.
Has thanked: 214 times
Been thanked: 210 times

Re: The essential tools for Japanese inlay and carving

Postby Jamie F » Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:08 am

Ford wrote:Komokin will send an order to her within Japan and Tokyu Hands does have branches throughout the country also.
Champion :trophy: Will let you know how it all goes!

Jamie
"Knowledge comes by taking things apart: analysis. But wisdom comes by putting things together.” John A. Morrison
User avatar
Jamie F
Registered User
Registered User
 
Posts: 87
Images: 1
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 6:27 am
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: The essential tools for Japanese inlay and carving

Postby Jamie F » Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:46 am

Alrighty... here's what my Japanese researchers have turned up:

Komokin's website [in Japanese] :crybaby: http://www.comokin.co.jp/

Chisels/Punches [tagane] [see first two pages] http://www.comokin.co.jp/shopbrand/004/X/

Hammers [otafukuzuchi] http://www.comokin.co.jp/shopbrand/005/X/

Pitch Bowls, pitch etc - http://www.comokin.co.jp/shopbrand/003/X/

Horse hair polishing brush [migaki-bake] http://www.comokin.co.jp/shopdetail/008003000007/

Rokusho - http://www.comokin.co.jp/shop/shopdetail.html?brandcode=010004000004&search=36-4&sort=

Posting within Japan: orders over ¥10,000 [NZ$170] are freighted FREE.

Posting overseas: Minimum order ¥25,000 [NZ$400] , plus freight [NB - old figure. This may have gone up!]

Question, re: Rokusho - It's been mentioned that there's only one manufacturer, but my guys have turned up two different STRENGTHS from another supplier. The weaker one sells for NZ$190 for a 600gm packet. Can anyone advise on which to get? [NZ$320 is a lot to front up :wacky: ]

Thanks all!

Jamie
"Knowledge comes by taking things apart: analysis. But wisdom comes by putting things together.” John A. Morrison
User avatar
Jamie F
Registered User
Registered User
 
Posts: 87
Images: 1
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 6:27 am
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: The essential tools for Japanese inlay and carving

Postby Davide Servolini » Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:46 pm

Hi Ford!
It is very interesting to look at this esential kit of japanese inlay and carving.
I've some questions:
-Do the scrapers have a razor blade?? or simply without sharpening?
-Nagura, scotch and magnolia carchoal can be buyed in specific shops or also in fine-arts ones? Do they give different polish grade??
-You say that arkansas stone is worst than diamond stones cause arkansas makes too sharp for the work you want to obtain on the surface???
-do renaissance wax is expensive?? I did'n saw this product before, I will try to find here in Rome :)

Thank you
User avatar
Davide Servolini
Registered User
Registered User
 
Posts: 40
Images: 8
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:18 pm
Location: Italy
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Re: The essential tools for Japanese inlay and carving

Postby D.Sweet » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:47 pm

Davide S wrote:Hi Ford!
It is very interesting to look at this esential kit of japanese inlay and carving.
I've some questions:
-Do the scrapers have a razor blade?? or simply without sharpening?
-Nagura, scotch and magnolia carchoal can be buyed in specific shops or also in fine-arts ones? Do they give different polish grade??
-You say that arkansas stone is worst than diamond stones cause arkansas makes too sharp for the work you want to obtain on the surface???
-do renaissance wax is expensive?? I did'n saw this product before, I will try to find here in Rome :)

Thank you

Hello Davide,
The scrapers are not refined to a razor sharp edge. The cutting face is roughly 80 to 90 degrees according to the picture Ford posted in this thread. http://www.followingtheironbrush.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1018&hilit=hisage

The Nagura Ford mentions is just one type of natural nagura called Tsushima nagura. It is possible to get these outside of Japan but it is rare. Unless placing an order with Komokin, you could try to obtain nagura through some japanese whetstone vendors. There are quite a few knife and razor enthusiasts out there who might be able to assist in obtaining some through their contacts. The same can be said for Magnolia and Paulownia polishing charcoal. But with charcoal you can at least make your own. As shown here by Dan O'Connor http://www.followingtheironbrush.org/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=2293&hilit=charcoal

Scotch stone is a bit hard find now a days but can still be found through creative searching. I myself have found quite a bit through ebay. There are also different grades of scotch stone also known as Water of Ayr and/or Tam O' Shanter. The different grades are sometimes labelled for different uses. You can also tell these apart by their physically appearance.

Renaissance wax is relatively cheap. It is about $15 US for the small canister from a US jewellery supply catalogue. You should be able to find this from most jewellery suppliers. Perhaps some of our other Italian members will chime n with further information.
-Donovan
User avatar
D.Sweet
Sponsor
Sponsor
 
Posts: 280
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:31 pm
Location: Damascus, MD
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: The essential tools for Japanese inlay and carving

Postby Davide Servolini » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:49 pm

Thanks Donovan ;)
I've seen the first link very instructive! I also saw western version, where I knew only triangular type.

For the Nagura and magnolia carchoal what polishing grade have them?? Like pumice stone or like 4000 sand paper??
For scotch stone when I googled I saw stones for scotch wisky, sorry I'm not a wisky expert, but they are also used to drink scotch at the right temperature??? (but they seem to be another color)

From a video I saw that scotch stone polish metal surface nearly to mirror, it is for finishing the piece??
For carchoal I will follow the tutorial ;)
thanks!
User avatar
Davide Servolini
Registered User
Registered User
 
Posts: 40
Images: 8
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:18 pm
Location: Italy
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Re: The essential tools for Japanese inlay and carving

Postby D.Sweet » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:55 pm

Hi Davide,

I also should have noted that Ford has a short video showing the use of hisage on his youtube channel. I am not sure if you have seen this yet, but if not, it might shine a bit more light on the tools usage.

I have not had good luck finding these stones under the term scotch stone. Instead, try searching for Water of Ayr and Tam O' Shanter. The little scotch rocks they are selling now adays are not the same thing :). And Scotch and Whiskey should not be chilled IMHO.

According to the straight razor enthusiasts, of which I am one, the gray scotch stone comes in around 6000 grit and the higher grade white scotch stone is around 8000 to 10000 grit. But the magic comes from how these stones behave when polishing and honing. The polishing order would be something like this (as I see it). Scotch stone or tsushima > Magnolia charcoal > Paulownia Charcoal > Pumice powder and/or paulownia charcoal powder. As you assumed, this progression is for finishing. And when it comes to steel and/or iron polishing this hierarchy can be preceded by other slightly more aggressive artificial stones such as the Gesswein stones being discussed in this same forum.

Hope this helps
-Donovan
User avatar
D.Sweet
Sponsor
Sponsor
 
Posts: 280
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:31 pm
Location: Damascus, MD
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: The essential tools for Japanese inlay and carving

Postby Davide Servolini » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:52 am

D.Sweet wrote:Hi Davide,

I also should have noted that Ford has a short video showing the use of hisage on his youtube channel. I am not sure if you have seen this yet, but if not, it might shine a bit more light on the tools usage.


I saw it, and yes it was very instructive, I never used that technique to work metal surface cause I didn't know it, I like Ford's way to manage the metal surface!

D.Sweet wrote:I have not had good luck finding these stones under the term scotch stone. Instead, try searching for Water of Ayr and Tam O' Shanter. The little scotch rocks they are selling now adays are not the same thing :). And Scotch and Whiskey should not be chilled IMHO.


Yes now with that therms I can find it better ;)
I find all big blocks for sharpening razors, for use them do you think that they can be broken in several pieces without problems???
I'm curious if there in italy they sell those products in the jeweler's supply shop. :rolleyes:

D.Sweet wrote:According to the straight razor enthusiasts, of which I am one, the gray scotch stone comes in around 6000 grit and the higher grade white scotch stone is around 8000 to 10000 grit. But the magic comes from how these stones behave when polishing and honing. The polishing order would be something like this (as I see it). Scotch stone or tsushima > Magnolia charcoal > Paulownia Charcoal > Pumice powder and/or paulownia charcoal powder. As you assumed, this progression is for finishing. And when it comes to steel and/or iron polishing this hierarchy can be preceded by other slightly more aggressive artificial stones such as the Gesswein stones being discussed in this same forum.

Hope this helps



Thank you Donovan, really well explained!
Until now I didn't knew that some types of charcoal could polish...
Practically using various stones and charcoal we don't need to use sand paper if I've hunderstod well...
Do you think that pumice powder is more fine than scotch stone??
User avatar
Davide Servolini
Registered User
Registered User
 
Posts: 40
Images: 8
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:18 pm
Location: Italy
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Re: The essential tools for Japanese inlay and carving

Postby jhobson » Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:24 am

Escapement files:
I use the half round the most. If you are put off by the price of a set and want to try just one, I suggest a half-round. To give some idea of how fine the escapement file is, you can go straight from the escapement file to the buffer and get a reasonable polish on steel (the example is just for comparison - I don't often buff my tsuba's).
User avatar
jhobson
Sponsor
Sponsor
 
Posts: 296
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:59 am
Location: j6 M25, England
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: The essential tools for Japanese inlay and carving

Postby John L » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:58 pm

If your dealing with the komokin catalog or anything else written in japanese, and you have none, I recommend the photo option on google translate phone app. I was able to scan the untranslated images in the catalog on my phone and get instant translations so I could complete my order. Works great, real life saver.
User avatar
John L
Registered User
Registered User
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:46 am
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 1 time

Previous

Return to Materials, Tools and Supplies

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest