Lorenzo's apprenticeship

Re: Lorenzo's apprenticeship

Postby Phil White » Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:54 am

Well done, Lorenzo

When I started my apprenticeship, the master that I worked with told me that during his first day as an apprentice in Norway, his master gave him a block of mild steel about 75mm square and a large file. He was told to come back when he had filed the block down to 2.5 cm square on all six sides to a tolerance 1/1000 of a mm. He said that it took several days, but in the end, he really knew how to use a file efficiently.

Fortunately, I was spared this task, as he judged that I already knew how to file.

Give you any ideas, Ford?

Phil
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Re: Lorenzo's apprenticeship

Postby Ford » Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:12 am

Hi Phil,

I love the stories of "how hard it was in the old days" :biggrin: , although I sometimes wonder if there isn't just a little resentment at work in these situations. The older teacher almost begrudging the student any knowledge and so making them pay a very high price.

I think I'm mean enough though, without adopting other evil so and so's ideas ;) ...I try to be n..... :shock: , but even the word won't come out properly :redface:

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Re: Lorenzo's apprenticeship

Postby Ford » Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:16 am

Clive wrote:I don't know whats so difficult about that... I had one of those toys when I was 3.. I always got the squares and the circles in the right holes. I geuss I must have been child genius. Huh...

:snooty: :snooty: :snooty:


and I thought we were all square pegs in round holes :biggrin: ;) ...and that was why we have to do this sort of work, because no-one else will employ us. :rolleyes:
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Re: Lorenzo's apprenticeship

Postby Lorenzo » Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:04 am

Phil White wrote:Give you any ideas, Ford?



Hey Phil, how did you came to hate me so much? ;)

There is a little part of story that maybe can help understand something. I have studied as mechanical engeneer, so, i used caliper files and tracing tools since high school. This doesn't mean at all i am good at it, but only that for me those tools are not so mysterious.
When i was at high school, all my class had to do an exercise very similar to the one you described. We had a block of metal, and we had to cut it in two, and made two plates equal, all flat, in square, and tolerance was 0.05 mm.
After that, more tracing, 4 holes with same interax in both pieces.
Then some tapping, and other drills.
Drill was made with drilling machine of course, while tapping by hand.

At the end the two pieces, assembled with two screws and two cilindrical pins must have all sides still equal. That was an evil excercise :crybaby:
Taking risks is how we really find a more honest way of expressing ourselves in our work - FH
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Re: Lorenzo's apprenticeship

Postby Fred Zweig » Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:10 pm

Very impressive. Maintaining a perpendicular cut is not as easy as some might think. Very good work and an excellent exercise.

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Re: Lorenzo's apprenticeship

Postby Leon » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:30 pm

Clive wrote:I don't know whats so difficult about that... I had one of those toys when I was 3.. I always got the squares and the circles in the right holes. I geuss I must have been child genius. Huh...

:snooty: :snooty: :snooty:


http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=8b92NoxSb90

From the family video archive. Who's the genius now!
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Re: Lorenzo's apprenticeship

Postby Trevor W » Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:00 pm

Lorenzo, Does it particularly matter what order the shapes are completed? Should one cut the insides first or the outsides?
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Re: Lorenzo's apprenticeship

Postby Jim J » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:31 am

An old German tool & diemaker I used to work for explained one of the reasons behind making apprentices start with a big block of steel.
Of course it was to teach proper filing technique, but a big part of it was to weed out the slackers. :crybaby:
Anyone who didn't make the grade, or tried to cheat, wasn't worth investing the time and training in them.
An apprenticeship costs the company money, and someone that would give up on a task was better off being cut, before time and effort was spent on them.. :devilish:
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Re: Lorenzo's apprenticeship

Postby Ford » Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:38 am

To echo Jim's comments I have to be honest and say that at this stage I am beginning to think that the modern way of thinking about training/leearning and the massive importance placed on personal needs and ego expression might mean that a serious apprenticeship style of training might no longer work for 21st Century humans. Still...I'm really fond of Orangutans. :smartass:
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Re: Lorenzo's apprenticeship

Postby Albert R » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:10 am

Interestingly enough, in the US, we are seeing (hearing?) conversations about the uselessness of the antiquated 19 century education model we use. There are many people questioning the poor performance/productivity of our citizens due to a failure to teach critical thinking skills, creating risk adverse students, and in general, just herding ill prepared young adults into the work-force. There are companies advocating for a European apprenticeship model, where students will have the opportunity to start careers much earlier than the norm. An issue that has to be addressed though is the dislocation caused by the massive and unforeseen explosion in tech. At no time in history has there been such a dramatic surge in knowledge, industries, and technology. Africa for instance, went from almost no communications outside of major urban centers to cell phones everywhere in twenty years. Afghanistan in less than five. With that came a vast library of information, most of it crap, but vast none-the-less. In the US industries have been lost and then replaced by new industries, effectively leaving the Baby-Boomer generation in limbo! In addition human input is unnecessary, in many cases replaced by tireless automatons. One would think that this would free people from the drudgery of monotonous or dangerous work, and allow them to create or work in fields where they would be a positive force in society. Yet it is very rarely the case.

There is also a growing movement in minimalism, permaculture, off-grid, locavore, urban settlers, and any number of Luddite-Light counter-cultures expanding throughout the US as well. Again a reaction to the pervading sense of "it's just too much!" that folks are feeling.

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Re: Lorenzo's apprenticeship

Postby Jim J » Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:00 am

Back in pre history, 1972 in St Louis Missouri. The school system had two technical schools you could apply for. Two years of various disciplines, everything from electronics to computer programming ( punchcards ) auto mechanics and small engine repair. Even airframe and power mechanics for jet engines.
I spent two years in machine shop. Half a day studying math, blueprint reading, metallurgy, etc.
The other half actually running machine tools, lathes, mills etc.
After school I got a tool & die, plastic moldmaker apprenticeship thru the union.
Pretty much been successful at providing for myself and my family all my life.
Thanks to that training, I can troubleshoot, repair or design and build nearly anything using anything from a drill press to a full blown cnc machining center.

If we want to keep things moving forward we need to train and educate the next group of talent to support us as we die off.
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